How To Learn Chess Openings | DojoTalks

30 Comments

1. Great talk guys, I'm a 2200 and definitely need to use the engine less in analysis, because checking what idea the engine had and then thinking "oh yeah I'll remember that for next time I'm in a similar position" is basically never helpful, I'm not and never will be a Super GM who plays like a machine, I need to be finding human analysis on my (and my opponent's) human moves.

2. I am with Jesse, I have so many other things to work on, as long as I take my time and look at what the opponent is trying todo with his opening moves and stick to principles I should be able to get to the middle game without a huge disadvantage. Although I will say, Gambits are like crack…need to stop doing it!

3. Good video😃👍

4. This was a great conversation. I'm starting to teach openings to my students and this was very illuminating. Thanks, Dojo!

   For future reference, here's a list of "principles" as discussed towards the end of the podcast (by no means an abstract of the conversation):

   TWO GENERAL/OVERARCHING PRINCIPLES:
   -"Don't hang your shit (i.e., lose pieces), and take their stuff if they hang it" (David)
   -"Don't give out tempi" (Jesse)

   KOSTYA:
   -Time and development: Develop both sides of the board quickly and fight for the initiative.

   JESSE:
   -Pay attention to material, time, and the quality of your position. Basically, "Bring out your dudes."

   DAVID:
   -Bring out your dudes.
   -Fight for the center.
   -Create a POSITIONAL advantage for yourself IF possible.

   JESSE'S COUP DE GRACE: "Nobody knows what to do against anything, boss!"

   Happy chessing, everybody!

5. All Openings lead to a Pawn Structure, and thematic Middle Game Plans.

   We need to invest more time into understanding the middle game plans we are continuously reaching.

   For example: many openings lead to an IQP position. You’re better off studying how to play IQP positions than the multiple opening variations that lead you there.

   The ability to evaluate a position, it’s weak squares, weak pawns, static and dynamic strengths/weaknesses for both sides and then MAKE A PLAN, or CALCULATE TACTICS, is far more important than opening theory.

6. Opening learning is very interesting.

7. I’m not anywhere near the level of you guys but I have done a large amount of reading on how we master skills. I think Jesse undervalues the priming opening study does for the strategic elements of the middle game. Clicking through Chessable without much thought just memorizing moves is 100% bad. But deep study of openings and how they influence middlegames is definitely of value. However the lower rates you are the less value you get due to lack of middlegame understanding I also think that the top guys are so insanely good at strategy endgames and tactics that the only way that they can find winning chances is by using a computer to find interesting moves in the opening. But they paid their dues with mastery of other aspects of chess before they got there.

8. Perfect for someone picking up the petroff. Thanks!

9. How do you guys recommend learning an opening with Chessable? Is it necessary to drill the lines (which is painfully slow)? Or should we just use the "read mode" and go through it like a book? What do you think is the best way to learn from chess videos?

10. You guys discussing (almost fighting!) made this very content-heavy and easily one of the best dojo videos ever.

11. Have you guys thought about making a list of questions that you have to answer as you annotate your games? I have huge difficulty knowing what to look through when analyzing and it makes me less likely to actually do the analysis. something like what I saw i think it was Ramesh where he had a list of questions on a spreadsheet to help guide the analysis.

12. The way Jesse told that million dollars story was wrong, or the delivery was misleading. The same psychology stuff was in another video just day ago.

13. As always , I vehemently disagree with Jesse. I agree with Kostya . I kind of agree and disagree with David.

    I’m a 1600 player. I absolutely love openings. It is the key reason I even play chess. I’ve blown a million winning positions after being winning in 15 moves.

    But the reason I even keep playing chess is because I want to study openings. Hikaru once said “do whatever makes you happy to keep playing chess”. Hikaru talks a lot of waffle (given that he’s insanely talented , you have to take whatever he says carefully) but in this case he was right.

    I once beat a former Minnesota state chess champion because I had a great opening advantage and he burned his clock. Most of my games which I win are because of openings.

    Without opening knowledge , I wouldn’t last 5-10 moves against anyone above 2000.

    Also, no. The 1 in 10000 analogy doesn’t hold. I watched one game which inspired me a lot: Anand v Carlsen, game 3 world ch : 1-0 with Bf4 QGD and I’ve used that idea of playing c5 with the bishop on f4 and trying to get a pawn to c7 many many times successfully to the point that a 2100 player had 3 mins on the clock and agreed a draw offer on move 22 with me having an hour left.

14. Jesse’s distaste for openings is very subjective to his own experiences.

    Here David is being very open minded to both sides of the story.

    As Kostya says , if we never read what is correct , how will we ever get better?

    I was NEVER a Caro Kann player. My Russian coach at the time suggested that I start playing Caro Kann and all she told me was a few pointers like : you love the light squared bishop: try to make it a French with the bishop outside the pawn chain. Play c5 at the right moment etc etc

    Openings doesn’t have to be absolutely memorized or it doesn’t even have to be engine like. Like Kotsya said , all I look for is the themes I need to know so that I look for those ideas given how dumb and uncreative I am.

15. What is the Dojo opinion on a move like 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 a6?

    It’s the O Kelly variation of the Sicilian. My coach HATES it if I play an unprincipled opening like this. But literally no one at my level knows that c3 is the correct way to negate it and just try to get a Najdorf with 3. d4 which results in instant equality for black

    So at the 1600 level, I have a good understanding of what is clearly a subpar opening at anything above 2000. Do I continue playing it because it wins me games or do I ditch it because if my rating increases , I will reach a rating and not have enough experience with Najdorf and O Kelly would be crushed ?

16. Tyvm for such an interesting video!🙏

    Question about opening principles for beginners (around 54:00–59:40 or so). My current understanding is…
    GM Jesse states 700 level players can make GM-level opening moves and only states one opening principle – get your pieces out.
    IM David adds don’t hang anything, take what your opponent hangs, and at a lower priority create a positional advantage (seems pretty abstract for beginner me☺️).
    IM Kostya didn’t state any opening principles.
    Question: several other popular websites and channels have many more opening principles than these (like castle early, etc.). What’s the story?

    FYI – I’m an old beginner on a very low budget working on my own chess notebook before I start learning. I tested out around 1000 by playing against a few chess engines before I started writing my notebook.

    Appreciate any replies.

17. Could Jesse give any insight on why the Steinitz is playable for black? It seems like it is just slightly better for white

18. I'm really struggling not to hear Jesse say, essentially, 'play random moves because opening theory is just a trap.'

19. I just follow principles and don’t stress about white openings but I put a lot more effort into black at least up to the point I have achieved some major central break.

    It feels terrible to have your central breaks prevented in the opening and try to play a middlegame with no space.

20. I think another reason some players (including me lol) are obsessed with openings is because it gives a sense of identity. Young people try many different things while searching for their place in the world just how new chess players switch up openings constantly until they find one they feel at home in.

21. Maybe I look at it differently, but I agree with David; my want of studying the opening actually has more to do with not being worse than trying to be better. or in the analogy, I rather put a dollar into a bank account everyday than buy a dollar scratch off every day in hopes of winning the "big prize". Great conversation as always, gentlemen.

22. I use engines briefly after doing my own analysis. Typically, I'm shocked by some idea I didn't think of, and I'm motivated to do more analysis. I learn more from this than I would otherwise. To me, using an engine this way is a bit of a substitute for having a coach.

23. Kostya's point around 27:00 is on point

24. Jesse has some wacky opinions lol.

25. What if you just find the opening interesting? There's a lot of history and some moves are straight up losing, so why not learn how to punish them 🤷‍♂️

26. 1:02:07 😂
    Is the Dojo against playing the Dutch?

27. 1:02:26 "Did you learn this from Simon Williams videos?" LOL. I've been wathing Ginger GM for 4 years, and I would never pick any of his openings, besides the English maybe. He plays that only because every englishman must. But he did popularize the Jobava London.

28. Over half of psychology studies fail reproducibility test
    "Don’t trust everything you read in the psychology literature. In fact, two thirds of it should probably be distrusted."
    Nature, 2015

29. David had a valid point about the "million dollar" question that Jesse was talking about. Of course the research deals with averages, and there will be a range of attitudes (risk averse etc). The point of the research is to enlighten us about cognitive biases that we hold and how we will behave in "irrational" ways (such as valuing the prize in terms other than the strict mathematical assessment of the dollar value multiplied by the probability of winning).

    And as to how they collect the data, it's typically not just asking and answering questions, as revealed preferences (aka what people actually do) are more important than what people say they will do. This kind of research would be done by testing how people value the bet by having them actually do it, not by asking how they think they would do it.

30. Hi, can you elaborate on the subject of finding good model games for a specific opening ?

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